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malcolm

So are you seriously suggesting that the British aren't worried about terrorism Joseph? If I remember correctly the arrest of the men in Birmingham also led the news headlines.

tired and emotional

Malcolm

We’ve crossed swords before on this. Do you think the BBC is sufficiently worried about or able to confront the reality that one of its favourite groups of perma-victims (a core constituency in beeb eyes) is actually intrinsically incapable of coming to terms with its own bigotry, intolerance, violence and aggression?

Do you think the government of the day has truly grasped the nature of the threat, rather than belatedly attempting to foil the symptoms? Have governments of both major parties consistently failed to understand that where Islam is violence and intimidation follow?

Do you grasp this yet?

Jerome

What positive steps can we take to counteract the growth of alienation among some Muslim Britons? More assistance to moderate, often Sufi, forces within British Islam might be one good idea, especially as so many Muslim families here have their origins in the Indian subcontinent where Sufism has historically been strong. Encouraging and, frankly, subsidising the training of more young Imams here in Britain might also have positive effects. Last but not least, how about a more balanced Foreign Policy, giving more equal weight to Europe and America? Some of you won't find this easy to stomach, I know, but if it could bring our people here at home more closely together again, wouldn't it be worth trying/

tired and emotional

When Europe has equal weight in the world on any level, politically, economically, militarily, culturally or democratically then we can consider giving it equal weight in foreign policy terms. It doesn’t, it never will. It is a nullity.

Don't you find the argument we need to turn towards a weak and divided Europe at the expense of our relationship with the US – the country that has done more to fight fascism and tyranny around the world than any other on earth – in order to bring ‘our people’ together rather strange?

Why is it you think that embracing the dhimmitude and corruption of the EU will bring our people together – is it because then we can cease to ask difficult questions? Or give up on democracy and free markets all together? And stop furthering our own general long-term interests rather than those of 2.6% of the population. Perhaps what Muslims really need to make them like us are bigger welfare cheques and an enhanced feeling of entitlement.

I will leave aside your description of Muslims as ‘our people’ for someone else to challenge. Let’s assume that hidden within the revolutionary doctrines of Islam (deep, deep cover) there is a peaceful humanistic religion waiting to get out and tell Mohammed that he just went to far and what he taught is no longer appropriate for the modern world where Muslims are human beings first and religious beings second and joyfully share their common humanity with Jews, Christians and polytheists alike.

Actually let’s not assume that, it is clearly absurd. Sufis or no Sufis.

malcolm

In answer to your question 'tired and emotional', no I don't grasp it all.What's your solution,just killing them all?

tired and emotional

My answer is that if we are to survive the assault of Islam and also remain non-Muslim democracies governed by secular law then we need to understand the forces ranged against us as unbelievers.

There are other ways to win this longest of wars without resorting to genocide. As you ask here are my favoured few first steps:

1. Accept that the more closely a Muslim follows the example of Muhammad the more ‘extreme’ (in our terms), violent and intolerant he or she will be. Accept the reality that the semi-mythical moderate Muslims are the extremists in Islamic terms.
2. Attempt to encourage and protect (they will need it) Muslims who are prepared to say that they love their religion but are no longer prepared to blindly follow Muhammad’s example and rejection his violent teachings (abrogation in reverse if you will) (this is the longest shot in the history of long shots).
3. Begin counting people in and out of our borders.
4. Ban all immigration into the UK from Muslim countries.
5. Set up an extremely challenging points system for immigration from all non-EU countries. Islam would be a no-no.
6. Veto any attempt to allow Turkey into the EU
7. Make it a criminal offence to enter the country illegally
8. Make it a criminal offence to overstay a visa or to claim residency after illegal entry or overstay
9. Aggressive programme of deportation for overstays starting with Muslim communities
10. Legislation that places forced marriage on a par with kidnapping and rape
11. Legislation that creates a specific offence of honour killing punishable by life (in the biological sense).
12. Outlaw bride importation – or at least prevent it happening to under 24s as in Denmark, also hefty minimum income requirement)
13. Make mosque directors and committees legally responsible for the tenets preached and material sold and distributed with the grounds of mosque or Islamic centre property. Create charge of allowing a property to be used for glorifying terrorism and/or extremism and or incitement of hatred and violence, punishable by ten years inside minimum.
14. Licensing of imams by carefully vetted and accountable committee. License withdrawn and entry to UK denied if found to be preaching in Arabic or featured in extremist DVDs.
15. Tighten planning rules on mosques, Islamic bookstores etc etc.
16. Serious oversight of Islamic charities (close them down if no accounts filed)
17. Serious oversight of Muslim schools (force ofsted compliance, force health and safety compliance, prosecute governors and staff if inciting hatred or violence.
18. Vetting of prison imams, no access to the internet for terror suspects, solitary confinement for extremists/separate prisons/wings for extremists.
19. Crack down on hawala money transfer networks, allow security services to keep money seized as addition to their budgets (paid back into consolidated fund and then reimbursed as part of normal budgets).
20. Aggressively pursue preachers living on benefits while clearly not actively seeking work and profiting from sale of DVDs and accepting donations in lieu of income from congregations.
21. Energy security: Aim for 70% nuclear power within 30 years. Aggressively pursue a mix of other forms of energy that will allow us to be free of the Saudis, the Russians and any tin pot EU country further up the pipeline than us.
22. Designate the Muslim Brotherhood, Hiz but a’tahir as terrorist groups. Push for the EU to do the same and also to designate Hamas’ political wing as terrorist. Ban from entry all known figures of the above groups and deport all known figures already here – before they claim to have ‘left’.
23. Develop strong policies and relationships with Australia, India Thailand, Indonesia and really work to push back the global jihad.
24. Recognise and engage in Africa to prevent another Afghanistan taking root.

No genocide there Malcolm. We need to stop thinking that there is nothing we can do and that we are powerless. We are not.

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