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JF

This is getting ridiculous. How about some good old-fashioned national pride? What the world needs is more jingoism.

Graham Checker

Found this quite funny ;-)

Seems to be taking the p1ss out of the Americans just as much as the British.

The difference is, of course, that we spawned America, not the other way round.

We are, therefore, the mother country and we call the shots ;-D

malcolm

Not as funny as the other way round, well I would say that ,I'm British!
What the hell does 'credenza' mean?

Ken Stevens

Well, I'd happily accept annexation by USA in preference to being subsumed inexorably and undemocratically into USE!

USA already has one State with a Union Jack on its flag (Hawaii) so we could add balance across the ocean in the opposite direction.

Would the US Immigration Department be prepared to trial the proposed arrangement by letting my little'un settle in the US now please, without having to queue for a permit?

:-)

JF

Malcolm, it's a piece of furniture. This counter-declaration was clearly written by a non-American, though. For example, we also refer to short promotional movie clips as "trailers," I have never heard them referred to as "teasers." Also, I don't think any American knows what the Scouse accent is (and I only know what Geordie refers to because my brother's flatmate is from Newcastle).

Tapestry

America might be a little bit more alert about the Constitution Treaty than they were at the time of the Nice Treaty in 2001. Pre 9/11 America had no idea or interest outside its borders. Europe was only of mild interest as a holiday destination.

Now it is the greatest potential threat to the stability of America's world, not just because Europe harbours terrorists that desire America harm. The EU itself, en bloc would set itself in competition with the USA as its number 1 objective. Judging by US channel news reports, they are at last awake to the threat.

They could start work in Ireland and encourage the Irish to remember the ancient loyalties between Ireland and America, and persuade the Irish to reject the Treaty.

Failing that, they could strong arm Rupert Murdoch and threaten him with the loss of his precious FIX, sorry FOX TV. Murdoch is subject to EU competition laws and acts as the main manipulator of EU power in Britain to ensure they leave him alone to make billions from TV sport - never mind the headlines in The Sun.

Murdoch backed Blair all the way, and he's backing Brown now. The USA must surely realise that they need to twist Murdoch's arm up his back harder than the EU is doing if they want the Constitution buried.

Other than that, once the EU acquires the statehood it desires, the USA might as well accept that there is trouble ahead, and it will have to fall into line behind Brussels, and face humiliation.

I am sure America is not sleeping this time, and she will fight to stop Merkel and Sarkozy. It's not too late, just nearly too late.

David Belchamber

"If you insist on playing this game (cricket) which is only played by former British colonies..."

The author is quite correct: the first international series ever was between the US and Canada, starting in 1844. Matches were played over the next 17 years and only interrupted by the American Civil War.

JF

Tapestry, I think you have been given incorrect information about the US. Fox News in the United States is a right of center news channel, and is generally hostile to Europe; dismantling Fox will be a victory for Brussels, not Euroskeptics (the American spelling of that word looks ugly, I'll admit).

Also, as far as Ireland is concerned, it's generally pro-EU policy and shameful diplomatic past doesn't provide much hope that it will be the savior you imagine.

Da Coyote

Ok...

First, number 12 has got to go. Misguided Europhile states like New York and California aside, the right to own firearms is protected by the constitutions of 44 of the 50 states and it is absolutely un-American that any American territory or state be denied this vital aspect of American culture. Truely, many Americans that I have spoken with agree with me that the British are not citizens but rather still subjects to the crown because they are denied the rights of free men to weapons.

Secondly, until France abandons it's 35 hour work week, Germany allows grocery stores to stay open longer than 6PM except every fourth Thursday, or Sweden lowers it's income tax rate out of the 80th percentile, I, as an American, am unconcerned with the 'threat' posed by the EU to America.

Now those thousands of nuclear armed Iranians chanting "DEATH TO AMERICA!!!"?

That concerns me.

tapestry

JF, I'm aware of the Fox standpoint. Murdoch is a sly old fox himself. He can run separate strategies in different places in his organisation. In fact he has to do so to disguise his strategies.

He will allow his newspapers to run powerful anti-EU stories, but he will go out of his way to keep the people, who ensure the EU keeps coming, in power, as that is all that matters in the end of the day.

Because he writes anti-EU, people are confused into thinking he has an anti-EU strategy. There is plenty enough evidence that this is a cover-up, and he has made all his progress in monopolising sport TV and holding onto monopolistic media positions by ensuring the various treaties get signed, and their protagonists such as Brown survive in power.

In the US, he will be thought of as a eurosceptic too, but that is where you would be wrong again. For evidence on this read Lance Price - The Spin Doctor;s Diary, who worked for Blair in 10 Downing St. Blair had agreed not to alter his EU policy on any matter without clearing it first with Murdoch.

Leon Brittan, ex-EU Commissioner is quoted this weekend as saying that Blair took more trouble to negotiate so that Rupert Murdoch's privileges could survive, than he bothered to protect Britain's economy. And Leon's a europhile!

The Murdoch position is sufficient to deceive most people in washington, and most people in Britain. If the USA wants to stop the EU Constitution, they must exert leverage on Murdoch one way or another - although it might be a bit late. But that's who controls the allocation of psoition amond=gst British politicans. So far Parliament has always caved in to his pressure.

Maybe this time, MPs will stand and fight for their survival, but it will help a lot if Murdoch is neutralised. America's intervention will be essential to achieve this.

anti-taliban

There is no way a Bush administration would want this. We have a population twice the size of California which means we would be a massive political force. Given our political culture we would return too many Democratic Congressmen and Electoral Collage Votes for the Democrats.

JF

Tapestry, it sounds a bit conspiratorial to say that Blair would clear everything through Murdoch--what possible material could Murdoch have in his position to blackmail Blair into such a position?

I don't think the US will intervene more than it has in breaking up the EU. The US has taken a mildly anti-EU stance since the 1990s (we worked against the EU rapid reaction force, tried to foist Turkey onto the structure knowing it would fail, worked to separate "new Europe" from "old Europe," etc.)

Why don't Euroskeptics save themselves by voting Euroskeptics into power? What about UKIP? It's been hard enough for the US to bring democracy to non-democracies; it's another thing entirely to save democracies from themselves.

JF

err, "could Murdoch have in his position" should read "could Murdoch have in his possession"

Ken Stevens

Tapestry 3.33.

"Pre 9/11 America had no idea or interest outside its borders. Europe was only of mild interest as a holiday destination."

Ah yes, paddling on Omaha & Utah Beaches or making mud pies in Flanders.

Fred Baker

USA has a poor record of running annexed countries Cuba, for example ended up being run by the Mafia and they lost 20,000 getting well rid of the USA. Interesting China is picking the many countries which the USA screwed up.
We once had a policy for the North of Luzon and now we barely have one for the North of Luton.
There still is the Commonwealth of Nations and that is where we should be focusing our attention as when the oil has run out we will be back to our old sailing ships!

TomTom

Firstly the USA should abolish the Supreme Court and return to democratic principles - the US Supreme Court functions much as the EU Commission

JF

Fred Baker, I wasn't aware that the United States had annexed Cuba. What year was that?

tapestry

I tried to explain the Murdoch/Blair relationship in terms of what Murdoch wanted from the EU, and what the EU wanted from Murdoch. Blair was the delivery boy, and so too will Brown be the same.

The USA pushed Britain into the EU at the beginning.

Clinton was complacent about foreign policy.

I'm writing in the current era not about the world pre-EU.

I'm not suggesting that America tries to save European countries from domination for their sakes - although that might be an argument. I am arguing that the US should act in its own interests and prevent the bureaucratic anti-American superpower from absorbing all of the US' allies in this part of the world and forming them into an anti-US structure.

Fred Baker

Fred Baker, I wasn't aware that the United States had annexed Cuba. What year was that?

2nd March 1901

JF

Fred Baker, the Platt Amendment provided independence (albeit a crippled independence) to Cuba after Spanish rule. As the United States never extended its own laws or citizenship to the residents of Cuba, can it be called annexation?

tapestry

The Philippines was the only directly rules US colony. That lasted 50 years, ending after WW2. Not a great example of humanitarian treatment apparently. More like the Germanic style of suppression than the British style of acceptance of local customs.

Funny how this thread is debating us becoming a US state or colony, when we are currently being broken up into 11 EU regions.

No such annexation has ever occured before in the history of the English speaking world...with agreements obtained by deception of the people, by infiltrating the ruling elites and media and bribing them to conform.

It's not understandable to Americans what is going on here unfortunately, but America will be the key victim in the end. Let's hope someone up there in the US government does underestand the threat the EU represents to America and they begin to work to protect the world's strongest and longest lasting democracies from obliteration.

malcolm

Glad to see you are as mad as ever Henry (Tapestry).Where do you get these conspiracy theories re Murdoch/EU from? On everything else you are perfectly sane. I fail to see what threat the EU would be to the USA. Militarily the US could walk all over the EU and Britain if forced to choose between the two would in my opinion choose the USA every time.

Da Coyote

So the European Union is anti-American? Interesting in a sort of casual way. But nothing to really worry about, after all, the United Nations is an anti-American organization and we've contended with their nonsense for 60 years.

Maybe if the European Union had an army I'd be more concerned, then again, maybe not.

Kevin Sampson

'Let's hope someone up there in the US government does underestand the threat the EU represents to America and they begin to work to protect the world's strongest and longest lasting democracies from obliteration.'

In other words, save you from yourselves yet again.

TomTOm

No such annexation has ever occured before in the history of the English speaking world...with agreements obtained by deception of the people, by infiltrating the ruling elites and media and bribing them to conform.

Wrong ! It is exactly how the Act of Union with Scotland was passed - the Scottish Parliament was bribed to assent

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