« We need a political surge in Iraq | Main | The New York Times notes the improving security situation in Iraq »

Comments

Tony Makara

The aggressive stance America took against the menace of global communism must be recognized as of major importance in the later half of the 20th century. Now that communism is largely locked away in most peoples memories its sting has been drawn, but at the time communism was a very real and present danger around the world. Naturally, and it was right to do so, America opposed communism to protect its own interests. However the result was freedom for many peoples around the world.

Bob Harrison

It's not just a case of us being thankful to Americans - they should be thankful towards us too for constantly helping them fight their battles on the world stage.

I must say Mr. Murray, you're sounding a little too sycophantic towards our American friends. Remember, we are an independent nation - not the 51st state.

Malcolm Dunn

Happy Thanksgiving Americans.
PS I do agree with you wholeheartedly Iain about the dreadful Halloween 'celebrations' supplanting 5th Nov.

Frogg, USA

Bob, not only is Britain not the 51st state, she often led the way (and with less mistakes than America). I wish Britains would remind themselves of their proud history from time to time.

As an American, I can tell you, we still view Europe as Europe and Britain as Britain. I know, I know....that Britian identifies itself more with Europe and less as a soverign nation more and more as time goes by. But, Europe and Britain are still two very different things to Americans.

Tony Makara

"view Europe as Europe and Britain as Britain"

Frogg, I think thats true of most people here in the UK too. To me, as an Englishman, Europe is a place over the channel. The Irish too very much see themselves as the Irish even though they tend to be much more pro-EU than us. I have family connections with the states with two NYC born cousins so America has always been in my consciousness. Its very sad that Americans sometimes think we are anti-American because we occasionally criticize aspects of foreign policy. The fact is most people in the UK are very pro-USA. We, as a nation, are critical of everybody, including ourselves. The things that unite our peoples are greater than the things that divide us.

Phineas

The older I get and the more I learn, the more I've come to realize how unique in the history of the world is the political legacy of freedom bequeathed by Britain and its anglospheric descendants. Something to be thankful for, indeed.

Maduka

I am thankful for America. We have done well for the World, but sometimes we need to remember that we have a less than perfect history.

50 years ago, people like me could not vote in some parts of America, could not eat in Restuarants, could not swim in the local swimming pools and could not be booked into hotels.

Thanksgiving is a time to thank God for new freedoms but it is also a time to remember that this great nation of ours is capable of great evil.

We faced up to the challenge of post-war Europe extremely well, but we have other significant challenges that we need to address.

1. China: China teaches us that "free markets" and human rights do not neccessarily go together. Are we sacrificing our democratic principles for cheap Walmart products? China is too big, too important and too strategic to be abandoned to totalitarianism. Is the window of opportunity on China closing?

2. Poverty / Developing World: 60 years of engagement with the developing world is long enough for us to undestand that aid does not work. Trade not aid solves problems. Our trade relationships with much of the developing world are quite shameful. Our tariff regime needs to be looked into. African farmers have a lot to sell to the US, we need to help them break the viscious cycle of poverty.

3. Democracy: It is relatively easy to organise elections and have "a democracy". A LIBERAL democracy is significantly harder to achieve. Experience in Russia and much of Africa shows that democracy does not always lead to improved living standards. On the other hand, East Asian nations (like Singapore, South Korea and Taiwan) show that sometimes a focused authoritarian regime can lay the economic framework (a growing middle class)for liberal democracy.

What are the best trade-offs? What are the lessons from Iraq (and the Arab World)? Is our present democracy thinking intellectualy shallow?

4. Terrorism: We are in danger of fundamentally altering our way of life and our liberties in response to the terrorist threat. (I have seen the ominous signs in Britain).

I learnt the words of Patrick Henry as a schoolboy:

Give me liberty, or give me death!.

That spirit must not be killed in the war against terrorism. We are free and we must continue to be free.

Frogg, USA

Tony, America is its own worst critic. And, trust me, we listen to criticism from our allies with open ears. It is not taken personally -- nor is it considered anti-American. In fact, it is expected from honest friends. There is no doubt in my mind that Tony Blair had great influence over Bush (there were no poodles in this fight against al Qaeda).

Ridiculous biased insults that have no basis in fact (or perspective) are viewed as anti-American; are more prevelant than real criticism; and easily ignored as irrelevant by most of us.

CAWP

I'm as pro-American as any rational person must be. But can you imagine any other country prancing about the place and demanding that people be thankful for them?

When they are in this mood - and they are in it far too often for a serious country - I just want them to shut up and f*** off, tbh. Yes, they have done a lot of good. No, I don't think everyone should be expected to bow and crawl regularly in appreciation. It sort of negates the generosity of the good stuff, doesn't it?

It's about time they grew up. Demanding that everyone is thankful for them is preposterously adolescent.

Peter

"I'm as pro-American as any rational person must be. But can you imagine any other country prancing about the place and demanding that people be thankful for them?"

Uh, CAWP - Iain Murray is from South Shields.

Frogg, USA

Maduka, "elections" don't make a democracy. Strong institutions that support and protect democracy are the foundation. Afterall, they had elections in Iraq when Saddam was in power getting 100% of the vote, didn't they? Those institutions are what keeps the power with the people and governments from becoming corrupt. The institutions take time to build up and it is why emerging democracies are very fragile (Russia/Iraq/etc).

And, I agree with you. I usually say that "we will not have peace, none of us, until we are all free."

I don't think it has been forgotten in America. Freedom is the heart and soul of America and what binds us. I think you will continue to see freedom's movement for generations to come. Bush's vision was one of three major "grand strategy" changes in US history. I don't think it will dissipate when Bush leaves office, either:

The Clinton-Obama-Bush Doctrine
http://www.nysun.com/article/66665

CAWP

No, I know who Murray is. I am a subscriber to NR. I also know that Steyn is from Canada.

Murray works in NY, though, and Steyn works in NH. And both have caught and are eager to spread this ludicrous attitude.

Tony Makara

Frogg, criticism can certainly be a good thing. If I'm making a mistake in anything that I do in life and someone can show me a better way to do things then I'm grateful for the criticism. I'm sure the same must apply to political leaders, if Hitler had listened to his generals or if Stalin had believed his spy network then history could have been very different.

Maduka

I'm as pro-American as any rational person must be. But can you imagine any other country prancing about the place and demanding that people be thankful for them?
The British claim Americans don't do modesty well. Could there be any truth in that?

There is a difference between the British and American temperament. The British tendency is towards understatement, while the American tendency is not.

A little cultural sensitivity helps.

Jonathan Jones

Our Constitution effectively dictates liberty and individual rights, but in some sense it is an artificial construct. The philosophical and cultural foundations that made possible its conception and implementation are substantially the product of a slow evolution in Britain. In some sense, Britain is the natural wellspring of most of our democratic heritage, a defining component of our culture. Britons by nature share our core values, and so we almost invariably end up on the same side of the important issues (after having exhausted all alternatives, of course). I think historians will scoff at the notion of Tony Blair as "poodle" -- through the wide lense of hindsight his motivations will be seen as true-to-self.

It is arguable that Britain has done more to advance the cause of human prosperity (not always intentionally) than any other country. I believe any fair observer must conclude that the British Empire was, in net effect, a very good thing. Her positive influences were felt far beyond her borders long before America existed, and continue to do so today. Many Americans rightfully take pride in our shared history.

I, for one, am very thankful for our kindred and ever-faithful ally.

Maduka

I believe any fair observer must conclude that the British Empire was, in net effect, a very good thing.

I don't think so.

The Dominions and the US are not fully representative of the Empire.

The Empire was a long brutal and undemocratic affair. It was characterised by a very low human capital development, high tariffs and discriminatory employment practices. The British left a people as capable and as talented as the Indians with an 18% literacy level.

One of the great legacies of the Second World War was the loss of the British Empire and the rise of the United States. The British had hundreds of years to establish democratic institutions in non-white lands, but failed to do so. It was pressure from Gandhi and the United States that effectively ended the Empire.

If Britain was not weakened by the Second World War and the United States never existed, don't you think the legacy of the Empire would be different?

The legacy of a World in which freedom of speech is gaining traction, trade barriers are being lowered, democracy is being established and economic dynamism is an American, not a British legacy.

KingofKings

The author of this article needs to remove his arse from his head.

What a pathetic, ignorant, uneducated and primative post.

You have the IQ of a goldfish. Give thanks to America? Bollocks.

And lol at the tit a few posts up saying we British are pro-American... Crawl out from under your rock. Europeans and British alike pride themselfs on being Anti-American.

I swear some of you American supporters over here really don't know what you're doing to the image of Britain, do you? While most good hard working, logic using people are out doing their best to brush away negative history and stereotypes attatched to the British; You moronic fucks are running around like little Bush-slaves, supporting injust wars and corruption... And thus prolonging these negative-stereotypes.

Stop watching Ugly Betty and believing the MTV hype and actually start following the news... Find out who you're supporting, you pricks.

Ps. Post is not meant to offend any sensible left-wing Americans, merely the caveman-like right-wing populous.

KingofKings

The author of this article needs to remove his arse from his head.

What a pathetic, ignorant, uneducated and primative post.

You have the IQ of a goldfish. Give thanks to America? Bollocks.

And lol at the tit a few posts up saying we British are pro-American... Crawl out from under your rock. Europeans and British alike pride themselfs on being Anti-American.

I swear some of you American supporters over here really don't know what you're doing to the image of Britain, do you? While most good hard working, logic using people are out doing their best to brush away negative history and stereotypes attatched to the British; You moronic fucks are running around like little Bush-slaves, supporting injust wars and corruption... And thus prolonging these negative-stereotypes.

Stop watching Ugly Betty and believing the MTV hype and actually start following the news... Find out who you're supporting, you pricks.

Ps. Post is not meant to offend any sensible left-wing Americans, merely the caveman-like right-wing populous.

mamapajamas

King... which "unjust" war are you referring to?

The war in Afghanistan, which was the direct result of the Taliban harboring Al Qaeda, or the war in Iraq, which should have been started in 1991, the FIRST of more than 2000 times Saddam violated the UNSC Res 687?

atheling

BoorofBoors:

Learn English, please.

Andy

Can we moderate the KingOfKings post? Name-calling and insults benefit nobody.

Steevo

Andy he's a plant :)

mamapajamas

Yup, he's a plant... probably one of these:

Plant

rightwingprof

"sensible left-wing"

This is what is known as an oxymoron.

Ami

I hope that KingofKings comments stay. My only regret is that more Americans won't get the opportunity to see them. KingofKings' remarks are rather typical of every British/European site that I have ever been to, and in my opinion, are very typical of British/European attitudes of America and Americans. If they weren't there would be no need for this site, now would there?

The comments to this entry are closed.

Blog powered by Typepad

ExtremeTracker

  • Tracker