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Comments

billm99uk

Hmmm... so it was Clinton's tearful moment that got her the win? I hope this doesn't mean we're going to get ALL the candidates blubbing their way to Super Tuesday now. I'm hardly one to praise the virtues of a stiff upper lip but we don't want the election to turn into a "Who can cry the mostest" contest. Mitt, John, Mike and Rudy are probably peeling onions as I write...

Jonathan Powell

Steevo,

The picture which Ami paints is of someone who trawls the internet looking for any evidence of anti-Americanism in the British media or on British blogs, which she then uses to gleefully convince her compatriots to join her in hating Britain and severing the links between our countries. I think that is stirring up xenophobia. The views expressed by anti-American types in the UK are often shared by people in America (e.g. MoveOn.org types) but people like Ami seem determined to make all disagreements into a "us vs. them" battle between countries, rather than viewing them as disagreements on certain issues between individuals who happen to live in one country or another.

Now, on your other point I would agree that there is a lot of anti-Americanism on sites such as this and increasingly in Britain generally, but I think it's counterproductive just to say: "to hell will the lot of them" as Ami seems to. Far better to offer a reasoned argument to try to persuade the person of the pro-American case. You won't convince everyone, but it wins more friends than the "my way or the highway" approach.

And please don't think the BBC speaks for everyone in Britain, anymore than the New York Times speaks for all Americans.

Jonathan Powell

Ami,

It seems to me that the difference between you and me is that you are a collectivist whereas I am an individualist--ironic seeing as one of the reasons I like America is that it founded on expressly individualist principles and has led the fight against collectivist ideologies.

Thus, you seem to view people primarily as part of a national collective, and are inherently suspicious of anyone from a different collective--looking for evidence of the true feelings of the British collective and arrogantly assuming you speak for America.

I don't see myself as a Brit giving advice (as you put it) to an American, but as a person "giving advice" to another person. Thus, for me there is no reason why I should view my interactions with people from Britain or Europe any differently than those with people from America.

Ami

Jonathan,

What should I do, Jonathan, to get out of my "collective." Should I join Europe and Britain and disparge my president? Should I insult our military? Should I find fault with everything every other American does? Will I finally "arrive" and be considered an individual in your eyes if I were to do that? Does it shock you to find rebel among the American sheep who worship the British? Euro-worshipping Amricans are the collective, Jonathan, I am the indivdual.

What part of "I" don't you get? I have re-read my statements and at no time do "I" presume to speak for the American people, indeed, I have said that "I" belong to a very small group of anti-Euro/Brit people. There are 300,000,000 of us and most like you and consider Britain a "friend." I say to them if you want a friend by a dog, at least the dog wouldn't insult and disparage you at every turn.

I don't abuse my friends. I have affection and respect for them as individuals something that is sadly lacking in the US/British relationship, and it comes mostly from your side of the Atlantic. How long do you think we will endure your slander, your insults, and your hate before we say enough? The tipping point has arrived. Those few who pay attention to what comes out of Britain know it is no longer good natured ribbing. They know there is a vicious, ugly underbelly to your "teasing."

A friend asked me once, if I thought there would ever be a military effort like World War II and would the same alliances form. I don't believe so, I believe that we will find ourselves on opposite sides of the fence, and I feel neither regret nor joy at that prospect. The Founding Fathers of my country warned against European entanlgement, they knew what they were talking about then, and sadly for us it is a lesson that we must re-learn.

Jonathan Powell

Ami,

You don't get it do you? It's your "us vs. them" mentality where your collectivist mindset reveals itself. So, there are some people who are British and have said things which you don't like about America. Rather than just saying those people are assholes, you infer that Britain as some sort of collective entity hates America as another such entity. So you seek to pull the drawbridge up and retreat to America--the America of John Kerry, Michael Moore, Ted Kennedy and Barack Obama--whilst disparaging people from Britain and Europe even if they agree with you.

Ami

"Us vs. Them?" Yes, that is precisely what it is. Who started it? You and Europe did, and continues to do so. Ask the average American, "Do you like Europe? Do you love Britain? And the answer is a resounding, "Yes!" Ask the average Euro (pick a country, any country), "do you like America?" The overwhelming answer will be "NO!" You, on your side of the Atlantic are doing this. I am merely helping the Euro cause. You should be thrilled.

"Some people?" Try a majority of people over there. Some people, indeed, if it was confined to the kook fringe this wouldn't be an issue, and there would be no need for a site like this to exist, would there? Wake up, if anyone is destroying the relationship it is you.

Jonathan Powell

Ami,

There you go again! I am not Britain, you are not America. I am not destroying any relationships, if anyone is it's narrow minded xenophobes like you and your anti-American counterparts on this side of the Atlantic.

As an individualist, I don't much care about the average person's opinion, and as a Brit I care even less about the average European (BTW, a "euro" is a unit of currency: as dollar is to euro, American is to European). Given that you admit most Americans disagree with you, I would have thought you would understand this, but obviously not. In any case, most of the anti-Americanism in Britain and Europe is political in nature; only a hard-core of idiots display the generalized hatred of America which you seem to have for Britain and Europe.

In the words of Ice Cube: "You need to check yourself before you wreck yourself."

Ami

"BTW, a "euro" is a unit of currency: as dollar is to euro, American is to European)."

Would you have preferred Eurotrash, Eurosleaze, Euroweinie? And here I thought I was being polite merely calling you Euro.

"...only a hard-core of idiots"

Well thank you very much, and here I thought I was being unreasonable in my dislike of you.

In the words of Ice Cube: "You need to check yourself before you wreck yourself."

'In the words of Ice Cube: "You need to check yourself before you wreck yourself."'

You are going to quote Ice Cube as part of your argument? How clever you are. Ok, say goodnight, Jonathan, we're done.

Malcolm Dunn

Nice argument! Needless to say Jonathan I agree with most of your points but haven't seen much anti-Americanism on this site. Which was my original thought.

Steevo

Now is a safe time? Your "stop whining Ami" post was a major catalyst in all this. You don't like the 's' word - oh my. You've never used it LOL? Every cheap insult possible here you've responded with like a frustrated teen. So many of your derogatory posts typify what Ami has referred to with low perverse anti-Americanism. You didn't like what she said because it hits home with you.

Look you want a leftist America as a number of Brits here do. There are reasons why. Those of us conservative Americans know this. You don't like that? Well, fact is what you stand for, judge and presume with our country is totally against what we stand for. You've been against our values and what we seek as much or more than any other Brit in this forum. You're obsessed, but what do you offer? How do you justify your posts? Do you have morals? How do you asses what is good as opposed to bad? Do you even know what it means to be up front and explain yourself? Too much of the time its a simple-minded derogatory or degrading angle, seemingly off the top of your head without any substance to back it: a crass moment of resentment and disapproval.

For now on, Malcolm, when you have a point to make... try, really try to respect the principle of owning up, with reasoned evidence and just plain facts. If there's anything beyond the antagonism and maybe even hate... be big enough to prove and justify, what Malcolm Dunn truly stands for. And stop, the cheap and easy finger-pointing toward a people and country not yours.

Malcolm Dunn

Steevo as you know the editor asked me to ignore your moronic mumblings so I will. I don't however regret anything I've had to say on this site.If you can find anything I've said on this blog that a reasonable person would find anti American go ahead.

Steevo

You're deluded a liar or even, both. A sleazy manipulator. Tim interjected and admonished you because of your direct cheap-shot antagonism, totally irrelevant to the discussion at hand. It has to be stopped.

A "reasonable person"? There's a big difference with moronic and stupid, or any other cheap derogatory reference to sub intelligence toward those you're in disagreement with? You have so many low and sleazy postings the only proof needed is up to you to counter the obvious and your blind sense of self-awareness.

A sleazy hypocrite with childlike angles, you need to grow up. That means you have to go beyond quick posts in other threads after being exposed implying you are really different. Get serious Malcolm, and start getting into the habit to be prepared, with evidence and facts, in spite of antagonism every thing conservative American. Its time to be an adult OK and make it a priority... to *contribute* toward real discussion having thought-out reasoned points of view with the value of substance, and maybe, even the possibility, of a constructive (non-divisive) outcome.

Andy

Malcolm,
Do you never tire of saying the same things?

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